Council approves $292,730 stormwater telemetry contract; discusses budget concerns

I'm the Mayor of the City of Orting, and I will be chairing the meeting of the Orting City Council. Meeting participation is both in person and virtual. For Councilmembers participating through virtual attendance, please ensure you're attending from a private place, free of interruptions or distractions. This meeting is being held in person and through the platform Zoom. A link for virtual participation can be found on the agenda or on the City's website. We'll start this meeting with the Pledge of Allegiance, led by Deputy Mayor Sproul.

To the flag of the United States of America, and his own republic, for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Madam Clerk, will you please call the roll, please?

Councilmember Torres. Present. Councilmember Williams. Present. Councilmember Tracy. Present. Deputy Mayor Sproul. Present.

Councilmember Holland has notified us who would be absent this evening.

Councilmember Hogan. Present. Councilmember Reed. Present. Roll is complete. We have a quorum. Thank you.

Would anyone wish to entertain a motion to excuse Councilmember Holland?

Motion to excuse Councilmember Holland.

Second. Thank you. Motion made.

All those in favor?

Aye. Aye. All those opposed? Motion passes.

This portion of the meeting will have no motions made by Council and will be served as an information and discussion for the meeting. Information will be presented to Council and the public to better understand not only current events and activities in the cities, but to preview future potential agenda items to be voted on at a later date in a different Council meeting. The Council will have discussion following each presentation by staff and the opportunity to ask questions by the presenter. I will initially call on each Councilmember for questions and subsequent questions by raising their hand and waiting for the Chair to acknowledge. Audience members will not be able to participate in this portion of the meeting. Council discussion will be followed by action items, moving the agenda bill to return to committee, to move forward to a study session for further discussion, to move forward to the next regular meeting as a consent agenda item or stand-alone item, or they could modify tonight's agenda to entertain a motion during the regular meeting.

So

to begin this evening, we will begin with study session item AB 26-111, Stormwater Maintenance Supervisor, presented by Human Resource Director Shana Punzelman.

Punzelman.

I believe I misunderstood you yesterday, Mayor. I thought that you were presenting this back to Council.

Okay, I'm sorry. Yeah. I'm happy to pull it up. It'll just be interesting on that.

I think that Council, just to kind of touch on it, did Council have any other further questions, or was the thought from the last meeting to wait until we get through with the organizational assessment to make a decision on the maintenance supervisor?

Mayor, Councilmember Williams has his hand raised.

Councilmember Williams.

The mic at the podium isn't working.

Is it any better now? I didn't have it on at first.

It's only loud in here. Yeah.

Attorney Lloyd, can you hear okay from the podium?

Okay.

We got a good go on that one.

I'll make sure I'll talk right into it.

Okay. Okay.

Deputy Mayor Sproul.

Yeah, I reviewed this thing even further, and I do have some questions. And

I pulled up

other storm supervisor salary in Washington. So the average stormwater supervisor salary in Washington is $124,642, which is $59.92 per hour. And ours was $132,000, so $8,000 more. In reading the contract, that has me really concerned.

Are you thinking of the proposed job position or the actual contract, the position itself?

Okay.

The contract, I don't know what it is. Let me try to get down here. Taking some notes. So the wages was $11,046.92 a month. And he will be covered by the collective bargaining agreement?

Yes, all of our supervisors are currently in the bargaining unit.

So that means the $132,563 is just his base. And then how many hours do the supervisors put in now in overtime?

It depends on if they're on call that particular week. That's usually what is increasing on the overtime. The storm doesn't typically serve as on call, though, because they are not certified for the plant or the water.

The other part when I was reading this, and I wish the director for public works was here, he mentioned that he needed somebody before, really, the org assessment in the event that he needs somebody to sign some paperwork with the proper certification.

The NPDES permit.

Right.

And we had to have a workaround with that.

Well, I hope you do, because within the qualifications, there's nothing in here that any of the qualifications need any types of certifications. So what I heard in the last meeting was we need somebody with certifications to sign some of these forms that have to go to the state. There's nothing in here other than basically a high school diploma.

I believe they have six months to achieve their licensing for NPDES.

So the assessment will be done before that six months?

Yes. Yeah. So,

again, what the director was saying last week, it's like, well, we can't wait for the assessment because I need somebody in case I need to sign these.

Yeah.

If you need somebody to sign them, how come under education or experience or license, it doesn't have that information of what he's looking for to sign that paper to send it to the state?

Deputy Mayor, does specify stormwater erosion sediment control certification, the APWA stormwater management program. They are marked as required. They do allow a time to procure those so that we can be open to a broader pool of candidates. It could be a very difficult position to fill.

So, I think my other note that I had here. So, also in here, there were, why can't this guy be exempt? So, LFSA has three. Is this guy going to be able to hire and fire?

No.

They would have input on hiring and firing, but.

Okay. That's good enough.

That fulfills that requirement to be exempt. He's going to supervise more than one employee?

Yes.

And he's going to be paid more than $80,000 a year by the state of Washington?

Correct.

So, he's fulfilled all those requirements to be exempt. Why is he not exempt? Why are we paying a guy that's making $132,000 over time?

So,

I guess I could answer to that. I can tell you that that's been under continuous review by our HR. And we've met with the union to look at the possibility of, even if they were not exempt, they should not be in the same union as the same bargaining unit as the current supervisors. We would need to have more of a buy-in from the current union staff supervisors to be able to move forward with that.

Or we would change the job requirements to make it an exempt.

So, currently, the supervisor exists right now, and it's a union position, the current supervisor position that we have.

No, it's not.

Mayor, you talked last week, you said that you are combining two roles, that he would be stormwater and maintenance.

Yes.

That position does not exist today, doesn't it?

That's true. That is true.

So, it would be a new position. We could hire it as an exempt employee.

The duties that are in as under the stormwater supervisor are already covered by a union position.

I absolutely agree. But we are creating a new position. They could be exempt.

Right.

But pulling those duties out from underneath a position that's already covered by the union, it's going to be skinny.

And again, those positions maybe need to be reviewed because they are fulfilling all those requirements of the federal law that would make them.

I think our city attorney has an input he'd like to provide.

It's attorney Lloyd.

Thank you, clerk.

Thank you, mayor.

And I didn't want to overstep and inject myself. There are complicating procedures that are involved when you separate work that is traditionally union work and pull that out and bring it into a non-union position. I would want to explain those procedures in executive session so the council is fully aware of the legal risks and the procedures in doing that. But it would be inappropriate to comment on that in a public meeting. So, I can only say right now in this session that there are some complications in achieving what is being proposed.

That's all.

Would you propose that this evening we open our executive session for a few months to delve into this a bit deeper?

So, I understand about the guys that are already on there. We are right in the budget session right now. So, this will be a topic I think that we as a council needs to bring up. That if we are paying people to be supervisors and yet they get a claim overtime, they're not really a supervisor at this point. They are overseeing people. And so, I really want to see what the overtime is on with.

Thank you, Deputy Mayor Sproul. So, if you're okay with it, I will open up an executive session following the regular business meeting to go a little bit more in depth with this for personnel issues.

Okay.

And that might give the opportunity for us to kind of.

So, I did some more research on the AWC job net. There's a senior stormwater programs coordinator. 103,000 is the top end. Why are we so paying our people? There's an engineer stormwater and water resources job opening for Spokane Valley, which has a population of 109,000. And they're paying this guy at the max $10,699, and we're paying $11,046. And this guy's an engineer. This guy has a degree, and we're saying we want somebody with a high school diploma, and we're going to pay him more than what a degreed engineer it is. I cannot back this.

I cannot back this. Okay. Thank you. Okay.

Comments or questions from Councilmembers?

Any other? Councilmember Hogan? So,

the whole thing boils down to if this flies, we're going to wait until after we have our examination of public works to hire this person?

That's my intention, anyway. But for right now, it's actually the creation of a position. And like you mentioned, Deputy Mayor Sproul, the salary of what this position should be. So, we're in the process of creating this position and not necessarily filling this position. It was to kind of address some of the gaps in leadership that they have with the maintenance department and to maybe ask more of a supervisory position than just to have a staff of two people supervising the wages. So, it was an attempt to kind of work within the current collaborative agreement to kind of address some of the issues. But as our attorney pointed out, it's a little bit more complicated than this and probably would be better suited in an executive session to talk about.

Okay. Okay. Thank you. Councilmember Reed?

I had a question on the position. Who was the maintenance supervisor previously, or who is the maintenance supervisor right now?

Currently, we do not have one. We have, it's a lead position.

Oh, it's a lead position.

It wasn't a supervisory position.

It wasn't a supervisor. And then there's a superintendent above that position. And so, there's currently no supervisor in that spot.

And so...

Actually, in maintenance, we still have a lead person, right?

Yep. There's just a lead. There's a lead.

That's all we've ever had in maintenance.

That's correct. Yep.

So, it is being filled right now.

By a lead spot, yeah.

Yeah.

Somebody that's not able to do the supervisory work.

So, is that lead person going to get paid less if he's no longer in charge of those people? Or is the supervisory position going to be in charge of the lead person?

It would be in charge.

And they're still going to be in charge of the people under him.

Yeah.

That person would be in charge of the lead. And then the lead person would be more of a field lead type of thing. But my overreaching goal, and maybe it will be addressed more in the organizational assessment, would be to ask more of our supervisors and to get our supervisors in more of a supervisory type of a role. And, but like I say, I think that maybe we should probably address some of this in the executive session because it has some of it to do with around the contractual agreement with the union.

I'm not asking you more questions right now.

Okay. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Yeah. Thanks.

No, I'm taking it all in. But I, I think, uh, deputy mayor Sproul has some valid points.

Okay. Thank you. Okay. Okay.

And moving on to our next item of business is we have our, uh, public hearing, uh, with, uh, budget discussion, uh, finance, Tammy. Well, actually this is not the public hearing portion, but this is, uh, finance, uh, director, uh, Tammy Mortar, just to kind of a recap on our process, uh, where we're at Saturday. If you have any questions following that, that, uh, workshop from Saturday. And then, uh, know that we've begun the process of setting up, arranging, uh, small group workshops

with, uh,

uh, small groups of council members to work through the more detailed approach of the budget before we come back to the whole body again and, uh, answer questions, uh, as

a whole body,

uh, any questions or comments for council member Mortar this evening? Uh, council member Hogan.

Tammy, we worked on getting a schedule going. Did you, you kind of got an idea where we're coming from?

A schedule for the meetings?

Yeah.

There was, um, some meeting times that were sent out earlier today for the smaller meetings with, uh, a couple of council members and then the mayor and the city administrator and

I, I missed it. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah.

I do believe you have something to report, uh, some of your findings with the revenue, some changes from Saturday.

Um, so one of the things that I did come across, so we just recently received our last payment of the year for our electric, our electricity B and O tax. Um, we are receiving more than what we anticipated for the 2026. So we were budgeted for about $350,000 and to date we've received just under $430,000 for the electricity B and O tax. It's a result of the increase in costs for electricity. So we were estimating a 17% increase for our expenditures. And then, um, we are historically very conservative with our revenues. So when we budgeted for the 2027 budget, we actually budgeted for about $380,000 in, uh, uh, B and O taxes for electricity.

Um,

at this point, I, my suggestion would be to increase that to about 425, um, based on how we've been trending over the last three quarters. Uh, we'll see our first payment of electrical B and O taxes in January that will cover a fourth quarter of 2026. So it'll be October, November, December, and we can, that'll kind of give us an idea of like what 27 might look like. Um, but for right now, the last payment we received is 150,000 and it's, it's a significant difference from what we've been receiving. So first quarter of 2026 was, um, the payment we received, which was actually for the last quarter of 25 was only like $95,000. So significantly higher, um, which is to be expected if they're collecting more, uh, they're paying more for electricity, they're going to collect more tax related to it.

Thank you.

Questions or comments of, okay.

The mayor Spraw. Uh,

I don't know if this is for you or the mayor. Um, I noticed that the year to date or this year have been pulled out of all these. Oh, in previous, in previous years, we would show like what I'm looking at the 2026 budget, which came out in 2025. So it would show, um, the budget as well as where we were like October 20, uh, in this case, like, uh, with the 2024 budget, it shows 2024 as of October 31st, you know, where we were, year to date and none of these have that year to date. And the first one that I was looking at, which was, um, for the council, um, it shows 2025 year to date, but those figures can't be right because the figures from the 2026 budget exceeded what was shown at that time. So I have no idea what I'm even looking at.

Um,

what, what page are you referencing?

Uh, page 86. In the budget book? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Uh, that should not occur because he's agreed to give those up, but yeah, yeah. If he decided tomorrow, then it's not in our budget.

Yeah. Yeah. That's correct.

So that needs to be put back in there. Um, that was, I, I haven't gotten really far on this.

Um, the court, um, same thing.

I, I, I don't know what I'm looking at here for on page 88. Um, I don't know if that's a budget or year to date for revenues, but, um,

maybe what she had printed up.

Do you have any comments, uh,

Director Mortar?

I was just looking at the summaries to see, um, what we had in there. It looks like the headings are incorrect. So the headings didn't get updated.

The headings and the figures too, because.

Yeah.

I think maybe for legislative, the, the, uh, the, the actual amounts that are in there are incorrect from the last budget.

That one didn't get updated. And then just, I was, I was wondering when we show wages, like I'm talking about the court here, is overtime included in those wages as a, you know, and maybe our HR sitting back there too, she could, she could weigh in there because I thought I had heard that we're spending a lot of overtime for implementing a new state mandated system. Um, that's, you know, has that been only implemented now?

That will show up in your expenditure portion broken out.

So the, the overtime would be included in the, in the wages and, uh, it is, um,

supposed

to be implemented in April, May timeframe of 2027.

So all that overtime. So I'm curious, then why did our wages for 2027 go down $31,000?

I have to look at it and see what was in there.

And we actually increased our head count and didn't decrease and yet our wages are going

down.

And that has to do with, with the funding for that.

So. Oh, I know. I guess. You're correct. You're correct. You're correct. Yes. Yes.

So when we, um, when I went in to do the allocation, I forgot about that, but we had talked briefly about creating a new fund for the school zone and the wages for the school zone related activities for each of the individuals that are like, so in court, we have part of

the court administrator,

um, part of the court clerks, those wages have now been moved out of court and into the expenditures for the school zone. So we have, we have, um, the restricted revenues for a school zone infractions that has been separated into its own fund and then the expenditures related to that are in their own part of that

fund. So that's the reason why.

And, and I believe that you had addressed that, the thought that we need to utilize all of those funds rather than return them back. It was one of your, I think, I remember correctly with the workshop.

Right. You're right.

But in just looking here, nothing tells me, um, because you, you did a great job on the

city clerk, um,

the clerk's budget is incorporated into the finance department budget.

Yeah.

We, that was a lot.

Nothing here saying. Yeah.

There's a $31,000 discrepancy, but it's somewhere else.

That was, I think a last minute change. And then the narrative wasn't updated. So we'll update the narrative to make sure that it notes where the funding has gone and how much, because there is, you're correct. The funding did go up with the increase in, in the FTEs for, for courts, but increasing FTEs, but then the funding went to another place instead of going back into court. So I will update the narrative to make sure that it notes that because we need to update narrative for police as well. Um, there's, there's costs associated with police for the time to review the tickets and then also the time for security for the court. Um, and there's potentially, um, there's been conversations of adding additional court date, which would then also be paid for by the funds that are restricted. The schools aren't restricted funds as well. So that was some of the things that have been discussed, but that we're not in this budget

right now.

So we don't, although the judge is spending a tremendous amount of time with school zone

infractions,

none of the costs for the judge have been moved into the school zone expenses

yet.

So it's one of the other things that we're looking at is determining how much time is being spent by the judge on these infractions and then moving that portion of time into the, the restrictive revenues. So in the, in the fund that's specifically for the school zone, so that will change some

of that.

It will reduce some of the PD time as well, because there's time for the security for the

court.

That's not been moved either. So if there's, there's been talk of potentially adding an additional court day as a result of, of some of the, the infractions, because they've been taking up a great deal of the time

for the court.

Um, and so the first half of court is typically for a criminal second half of the court is usually traffic, which this falls under traffic. Um, and so there's, there's a possibility that there may be another time, another day that needed to be added, but that would be covered by the, the funding for the school zone

fractions.

So that's something that is, was kind of in limbo as we went through and we created this

initial budget. Okay. Um,

going on to the next one, executive, um, which is on page 90.

Um,

the 2025 actuals is, um, 24% under budget, um, $45,279. Um, I don't think last year are the 2025 wages that we paid our executives, which was the mayor and the city administrator equaled $44,490. We had budgeted $124,702 and I really, the benefits.

Okay. Yeah, that's it.

At $11,820, we budgeted $33,524. Supplies went up. We budgeted $1,450. We spent $4,537. And services, we only budgeted $25,340. Why did we spend $78,890 on services?

So we allocate the wages for the city administrator across the funds. And when we had an interim city administrator, that was for professional services. They don't go into wages because they're not an actual employee. So that's where you see the allocation for services.

But no, this goes into 2025. So the new mayor didn't come on until 2026. And we didn't get the interim until 2026. So we're talking actuals for 2025 on page 90. There's no way we paid the city administrator and the mayor $44,000 last year. And if we did, I'd like to know how that happened.

One moment. I'm going to take a look.

I'm

wondering if what she had printed there is more of the portion of the allocation of the general fund and not across all of the representing the full wage.

The

budget summary looks incorrect.

And that's all I've got as far as the budget is, as far as I've dug into it. There are other questions I think I'll come and talk to the mayor about.

Thank you.

Because I've got some other concerns. When are we having the state in for the audit?

They don't have a time frame yet. The last email I got for them, they were still working on creating their process of like how they were going to audit us. So they initially had started with the information I've gotten on the financial piece of the audit. And then they'll do accountability. But they have two years to audit. So they're still looking at they're looking at two years worth of data to determine the planning process and how they're going to be here. And that email was received earlier this week. And they didn't give me any date at this point.

No date yet. OK, thank you. Thank you.

Any other questions of Finance Director Mortar?

Council Member Tracy? Questions? Nope.

Nope. Council Member Williams?

OK.

So here are none. We'll keep those questions in mind, Deputy Mayor Spraw. And we'll actually be beginning these small groups where we go in depth and identify all of those points where we need to get answers for.

So thank you.

I do know what's going on with it. The headings are incorrect. So the heading where it says 2025 actual is actually year to date for 2026. So the headings are off one. So it should be the first actual should be 2024 and then it would be 2025 and then 2026 actual 2026 budget, 2027 budget. So it just wasn't updated appropriately.

Which page are we talking about?

You're looking at executive.

So 2025 is not on here at all then?

No, 2025 is on here. So the headings currently say 2023 actual, 2024 actual, 2025 actual, 2026 budget. But it actually should say 2024 actual is the first column, 2025 actual is the second column, 2026 actual is the third column, then 2026 budget. So the first, the three columns in it were not renamed appropriately.

But all the other pages all have 2023.

2023. So yeah, the data is correct. The column headings are incorrect.

Okay. Yeah.

Thank you, Deputy Nurse Paul. Thank you, Vice Instructor Mortar. Okay, moving on to our agenda. We have roundtable discussion. This evening I had an item that I needed to bring forward from the Kansas City, Kansas Street project. First, it's been a little while since I've updated Council on where we're at in the budget. And part of my obligation was to ensure that I keep you all up to date on where we're at in our spending on the project and where we're at in contingency. And I really appreciated having the ability to respond to the contractor in real time to keep them moving forward with signing change orders. So what I brought this evening was I have kind of a summary of the project for you for the change orders and also the budget amount for it. And then we have our engineering team. I have them here this evening because we have a large change order coming before us that not too large. But out of at this point in the budget and at this point in the project, I felt it was necessary to keep Council informed as we move forward. I think overall this project is, given that it got off on a difficult start, it's been doing extremely well. Given the challenges of a street that's over 100 years old with many buried utilities and many unknowns under the ground, they've done a tremendous job. The team and ACI Construction has done a great job. And I think I also want to shout out to the staff that we've had because they've actually helped us to keep some of those costs down. So before we go to our engineering staff to talk about the challenge that we have, Finance Director Mortar, do you want to talk about the city budget for this project of what we're looking at this evening? We're looking at the construction portion, what we have budgeted?

So we had, there's three schedules for the Kansas Street Reconstruction Project. And we had, the three schedules include Schedule A, which is the majority of the construction. Schedule B, which is for the water main, and then Schedule C for the outfall. We had budgeted $3.7 million for the Schedule A, the majority of the construction, which did include some work in first stormwater. And then we budgeted $1.1 million for Schedule B, which is our water main, which is completed. And then $180,000 for Schedule C for the outfall. And they're still working on part of that. But the total budget for the construction piece of it was a little over $5.1 million, which includes contingency of $561,000.

So that's our given start budget to work from. The next page that I have for you this evening is the most recent summary from our construction manager management team on parametrics. We have the original contract value estimated at $4.687, approximately $4.7 million. Currently, we're looking at approximately about a $4.825, and that's not with the new incoming change orders. So we're on track to being pretty darn close to what the original budget amount for this project is. And what I have for you, I have another sheet which shows the forest directives and some of the work that's been outside of what we've encountered in the field and the cost associated with it. And you can see that they've kept it to a pretty tight number. For some of them, or things that we put in there, for instance, the side sewers, that was a result of the city requesting to address side sewers. As they found separations in piping and potential INI in the side sewers, we provided the materials and ACI installed and repaired the side sewers. So that was actually tightening up our sanitary sewer system as we moved on. And that was a huge plus to have that done while we were at that point in the street. So overall, I think we've kept things pretty solid. The Kansas Storm Field Directive, those were some of our change order number three. And we'll have future change orders as we go across Calistoga. Those were field challenges that we ran into on the project. And I think our city administrator, excuse me, our engineering team could probably speak to that better than I can. But some good news is that the money that we applied for from the flood control district for $228,000

Thank you, Mayor.

I'm Tammy Seymour. I'm the construction manager for parametrics for the Kansas Street project. This is Dimitri. He's the city engineer.

Oh, well, sorry.

I didn't know if you wanted me to give an overview or you want to tell us.

I'm Dimitri. I'm a project engineer for Kansas Street.

Perfect.

So as the ACI started excavating for the roadway subgrade, we've discovered some really unsuitable soils.

Oh, sorry.

Unsuitable soils that will need to be addressed. The roadway was seeping and it was just way too wet. So they're going to start applying fabric and geotextile with additional CSBC to secure the roadway because we want you to have a roadway that lasts for years and not have to redo that in just a couple of years. That's the overview, but you can talk with us, Scott.

Okay.

English is my second and I hope last language. So just correct me if I'm... Probably a little bit of history with the project. Kansas Street is a little bit unique. What I mean is subgrade, existing subgrade is not the same along the road and it's not the same even crossing the road. Using a standard engineering approach, we hired geotechnical company to do investigation and gave us recommendation for the payment. And what happened, they did five borings, which is typical for this length of the road. And we always consider that soil condition is the same across the road. So they did six, I'm sorry, they did five borings and I allocated those borings in my drawing. And then I allocated soft, soft spots on the road on the same drawing. And it appears like borings missed those pieces. That means the information, our geoengineering sub, they did not have enough information for us to provide a different solution from the beginning. And we found about maybe 10, 12 soft spots along the road. And thinking about fixing just piece by piece was not efficient, especially if we would like to keep a road uniform, designed and built.

Thank you.

So you talked about some additional soil stabilization in some of the low spots where they've excavated down to pull grade. And they've had a little bit of soil pumping as they're prepping the road. And so what initially, what construction manager Seymour did was she had to stop work to assess the situation and to get a better handle on it. And then Dimitri, our engineer Dimitri, did an assessment of the work. So what we brought on was I authorized a geotech to work hand-in-hand with ACI as they move forward so that when we hit these spots that we're prepared. I think what engineer Dimitri is bringing forward tonight is that we plan from the very start that we bridge these spots with some soil stabilization and make sure that we have a solid foundation to work on. I think one of the big reasons that I wanted to bring this forward tonight is that we don't have a number to ask for council approval on, but we do have a timeline that's really, really tight with the rainy season. So at this point, they're basically moving to the acronym CSBC course. And anyway, for the course, the gravel course and the buildup of the rock bed, of the road bed to get that prepared and then to get the first lift of asphalt performed. And so we're looking at just a matter of a few weeks. And so what I'm looking for from council this evening is that the okay, I'd promise that once we got closer to the end of the contingency funds or to where we had,

you know,

where we're now we're dealing towards the end of this project with what it could potentially be, that I'd keep you informed of the cost and before I approved of anything. But that's why I wanted to bring it before all of you this evening to give a chance to ask the questions and go with that. I believe that you're proposing that by having the geotech there that we may not stabilize the full road because we may find they started at the low point in the road and they're moving up and they found that the soil conditions have changed with that. And the other item that was causing issues is that at one time there was a potential creek bed that was below that road that meandered. And so gave even the geotech reports would not have picked up the variations in the soils under underneath the road there. So that was kind of one of the other mysteries along with the other storm transfer lines we found in there, the wooden one. And so I don't know if that engineer hunger for who would like to speak at all on this.

I just want to add one thing. You do have TIB funding on this project. They do pay for change orders. So I just was texting with Ryan. I've reached out to them and requested that they we start the process, the participation and change orders. I don't know what that looks like, honestly, right now. But they do, at the initiation of this project, I did talk with Greg Armstrong about if change orders come up. And they do pay for those in a similar manner of they pay for the primary and you have a cost share. So I should have a better answer on that tomorrow. I'm sorry I don't tonight. But I think that, you know, that they are willing to participate in this. And that's good because TIB grants are fantastic in that manner.

Great. Thank you.

Yeah, I didn't want to come before you this evening with just a problem. I wanted to come before you with solutions, too. And I think J.C. is bringing up, you know, one of the other potential solutions we'll have. So anyway, I'll open that to questions.

Councilmember Reed?

I had lots of questions. And I listened to J.C. I kind of lost my train of thought there. He said it was going to be possibly funded by the government.

That's correct?

Yeah, that is correct. TIB does have a provision that they will pay for change orders.

So another thing was you're I wasn't sure what your engineer was saying. I thought he said that the first thought was to do the whole street with the fabric.

Yeah. So, you know, what's that? Is that what he said? Yeah.

So, you know, geotech and kind of putting together what both Dimitri and Tammy said. And if I'm incorrect, please correct me. But, you know, we've got a geotechnical engineer on the construction management team. They're part of the design team. So right now at First Blush, they are saying do fabric the whole length of the project. You know, we're going to keep them out there as part of our team. And if we see variations in subgrade during, you know, ask them to provide a recommendation. And if we see stable subgrade, then we would move away from that, obviously reducing the cost. But we're going to defer to their recommendations because they're the ones that, you know, provide this. And they're the soil experts.

We are not.

So, and I think what both of them said, and I've certainly experienced, I'm sure all you have, your backyard can be very different in ordering than your neighbors because the soil is so variable. And I've seen it on every project out here. So we may get out of it and may save some money here.

We'll see.

I actually live on the street. I've been following the project pretty close, walking up and down the street and seeing the soft spots and different stuff like that. But they're beyond the halfway point now with removing the down to grade to the subgrade where they can place the inch and a quarter minus, whatever it is. And they started doing that and found the soft spots. But they were not over the whole street. So I was kind of surprised when they said to do the whole street with the fabric and the geode.

Yeah, I can let Tammy answer the question about, like, progression on site, specifically where they're at with that. But, yeah, I'll defer to her on that one.

They had only made it, I believe, to Coe in the night issue of the stop work. I didn't want them to continue to...

As far as what? Stop doing...

The roadway excavation.

Okay. That's why...

The roadway excavation, they're all the way up to...

Hayes, I believe.

Past Hayes to the next Grinnell. So that's a long ways past Coe. That's more than half the street. In front of my house is about the halfway point, and they're past that by a fair amount.

And that is where they had stopped. They were continuing, but they were continuing to find the soft spots. And so we had issued the stop work until we came up with a solution. But we also feel that once they get past and closer to Harbin, the conditions may change.

Right.

And because of the distance they've gone already, I know underground utilities are tough to do because it's a blind spot. But a ballpark figure of what it's going to cost if they had to do the whole street and a ballpark figure if they did a portion of the street with the fabric would be helpful to the council, I think. I mean, just to say we don't have a cost is not really acceptable. I mean, they're far enough along they should be able to give us a ballpark.

We did have a ballpark on that.

I don't think it's going to get worse.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So they should have a pretty good plan now what they think they're going to have to do, or your team should have a pretty good plan.

It's difficult.

I don't want to give you a number and it be incorrect because at this time it would be difficult to estimate. They're going to have to go back and rework the soft spots that they had and then continue forward.

That number would be generated by ACI, correct?

Yes. Yeah.

So at this point we're relying on them to get the numbers back to us.

Yeah. Deputy Mayor Sprott? Rick?

So at this point, I mean, this is just information only, right?

This is information and I'm kind of looking to council to maybe give me a head nod to continue forward with having that authority to respond to the change orders and then come back with information as we get the information.

I'm worried.

My concerns are that if we wait two weeks, our next meeting is in November. And we can't. It's cost money right now for us to stop the work. So basically we've got them working again and we found money within their schedules to keep them going. But there are going to be some other decisions that are going to have to be made within the next week to keep them rolling forward. And to prevent any delays, I was looking to council to kind of support me going forward on it. I think that we're still – that's why I wanted to present the budget. Even with some of the round numbers that I've heard, we're still staying pretty darn close to our budget. But I just was looking for that okay from council to go forward like this or what your desires would be. But it's kind of a – we're in a particular tight spot because of the wet season coming on.

So you've heard some numbers, but you can't share those numbers with us?

Yeah. Yeah,

I heard as high as $175,000.

That's not bad.

I was thinking a lot more than that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It could be – it could have been much worse. But because it is a contractual agreement with ACI, I kind of have to wait to see what they come back to.

In fact, the J.C. says that the sum of the change orders are probably going to be paid.

That's correct, yeah.

Yeah, we'll be applying with the TIV to get refunded.

Yeah. Yeah.

Right now, we're trying to meet the scheduled pave date of October 26th for the base pave.

Yeah. Deputy Mercer, Paul?

Right now, we are in a study session, so the council cannot make any decisions or tell the mayor what to do at this point.

That's correct. Yeah. Thank you. Council Member Holden? Mary, don't run away. They were. I wasn't. No.

So, the team's pretty comfortable with piecemeal in it instead of doing the whole thing. I mean, fabric, just repairing the soft spots and everything else looks pretty good.

I'm

going to leave that to the geotech to decide. What I would like for the geotech to consider is what the best product for the city is and the most cost-effective.

Okay.

So, if the subgrade is acceptable, then, you know, without the fabric in geotextile, then I want to move forward with that.

Okay.

But whatever, the most cost-effective way of it gives you the best product, it's a very busy roadway.

Right.

And a lasting product.

Yes, lasting.

Longevity is important here.

Okay. Council Member Reed?

Was there another option?

There

was another option, which was the CTB. It's a concrete treated base. Comparatively, cost-wise, I think that it was about the same. The issue is, is the curing time for that. And so, with the amount of residents on Kansas, they would not be able to access their driveways or their homes while that cured. And it would take the contractor longer because they would only be able to do sections while that cured and then allow the residents access to their homes. So, it didn't seem feasible making that kind of an impact on the residents.

The cost difference isn't that great, then?

Yeah. Okay. Tammy, sorry, I'm here.

Tammy, that's like a CDF product, then?

I am unfamiliar with it, but I believe so.

Okay.

It's a concrete treated base that they treat the soils with, but it has to cure.

Are you familiar? Yeah.

So, they literally take, like, powdered cement and mix it and augment the base course with it. So, obviously, when you mix cement with a wet subbase, it gets hard. But at similar curing times, as Tammy said, to, you know, flat work concrete. So, and we have to leave it undisturbed, which limits where the contractor can work. It also limits access to residents. So, it was certainly an option, and there's some positives to a CTB over fabric as well. But in talking with Public Works, as well as the rest of city staff, we feel that the geotextile improvements are a better option for this project.

Okay.

Yeah, because usually those are planned ahead of time when you come to that type of...

Yeah, or Greenfield Road, so, like, a new road for a new development. I've seen it used where we don't have access to issues. We can build it and leave it for a few days because nobody lives there, excuse me.

So... Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

Also, CTB is messy.

It's dusty. Yeah.

It's just kind of a side detractant to it.

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

So, Deputy Mayor Sprawl is correct. There's no motions to be made on this. At this point, it's information only. I guess if the council would want to add something to the agenda to change the authority that you all voted to allow me to move forward with working on the contingency funds, you could. But otherwise, we can just continue on, and I could authorize them to move forward and report back once we get the actual numbers back for you.

What would we be changing? We've already given you the authority to move forward.

You just would...

We would be taking the authority back. And so you would have to vote on the change order to allow it to go forward.

We've already given you the authority. Why would we have to change it?

What's that? Oh, no, you don't have to change it. You don't have to change it. We don't have to vote on it. We just leave it as it is. But I wanted to get you the information because if you had a problem with this going forward, I wanted to give you the opportunity to see it.

I'm pretty sure a lot of it's going to get paid for. I think we need to expedite the process.

That's my opinion. Okay. Great. Thank you. Okay.

You know, actually, the people, the contractors have been extremely helpful in getting people in and out. I've seen many instances that people are ready to go. They get in and move their trucks or they move their equipment or they put more sand in or gravel in the driveways. They went out of their way.

Great. Yeah. So, yeah. I got no point. Great. And thank you.

I just didn't want to take advantage of the authority given that you all gave me to do this and give you the opportunity to see some of the change orders coming forward along with the budget where we're at.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Great. Well, thank you.

Well, that basically concludes our study session. And we will get an update at the next Committee of Whole on the outcome of this with the council system.

We'll regroup.

We'd like to take a five-minute break and then we'll return.

It

will return at 6-0-6.

6-0-6.

Council Member Hogan, you're right on time.

I know. I know. Okay.

This portion of the meeting will allow council to make motions and agenda items. Council discussion may follow once a motion is entertained. Audience members will have the opportunity to make public comment on items that are not on the agenda or may request to provide comment on agenda item prior to a vote or motion. Council, do we have any requests for additions or modifications?

Agenda is prepared. Okay.

CNN will move forward.

Mayor. Yeah. Attorney Lord. Yes. Respectfully, Mayor. There was.

I did want to push AB 26-105 until after executive session if that's possible. It's 5A. But council would have to agree, but I am making that request.

So,

AB 26-105, you would like to have that placed after executive session?

If council is willing, yes.

I'll entertain a motion.

Motion to move AB 26-105, Pierce County Radio Fees and Use Agreement to after the executive session.

All right.

Motion made by Deputy Mayor Sproul. Seconded by Council Member Therese.

All those in favor? Aye. So moved. Thank you. Okay. Public comments.

This is an opportunity for the public to make comments to council about any matter of city business that is not on the agenda. Madam Clerk, do we have any comments submitted to council this evening?

No, Mayor. Okay. Thank you.

Is there any person in the audience who is not signed up that would wish to speak this evening? Do we have anyone signed up to speak this evening?

Okay. No, Mayor. Fantastic.

That shortens this meeting quite a bit. I don't have to read quite a few of the rules here.

So, okay.

So, moving on, we have, we'll begin our meeting with a proclamation to recognize a dear friend and a person who served our community. I felt that we get, sometimes we have local heroes that come before us. And it's important that we recognize them. And the individual I'm talking about is Tom Bush. Anyway, he served on the City Planning Commission for a couple years and was at high aspirations to moving up and becoming potentially a city council member. I know that some of you may have even mentored him and had many conversations with him about his future. And it looked very bright. And unfortunately, Tom had a sudden death and is no longer with us. So, anyway,

boy, this will be tough.

I invited Tom's family here this evening to be with us. And we prepared a proclamation to recognize the time that Tom had here in Orning and the difference that he made. So, this evening, I'd like to call up his family, Camilla, to the podium and we will present to them.

So,

this is a proclamation for the City of Orning. Whereas, Tom Bush's sudden passing, December 18th, 2026, has left profound void in the hearts of his family, friends, and throughout the City of Orning.

And

whereas, we as a community of neighbors and friends extend our deepest sympathy and love and prayers to his family as they navigate the profound loss of Tom, a beloved husband, devoted father, cherished friend, and valued member of our community. And whereas, Tom's dedicated service to the City of Orning Planning Commission will have lasting influence on the future of our community, particularly in serving Orning's unique small-town character and the sense in place that makes our city special. And whereas, Tom demonstrated an extraordinary commitment to our nation through his military service, including three tours of duty in Afghanistan, placing service to his country and well-being of others before himself. And whereas, the same courage and dedication and sense of service that guided Tom in his military career continued throughout his life as he sought to make his community and the world around him a better place. And whereas, Tom's love for his wife and Camilla, I mean, wife Camilla, brought him to Orning in Washington, where he made his home, built lasting friendships, and became deeply invested in the community that he came to love. And whereas, through his service, and willingness to listen, Tom helped bring people together during a time when our community was divided by an election, seeking common ground and encouraging shared vision for a stronger, more positive future for Orning. And whereas, his legacy will live on, not only through his family and friends, but also through the people he served, the community he helped shape, and the many lives he touched through the kindness, dedication, and courage, and unwavering belief in the promise of a better tomorrow.

All right.

If the council would like to have any comments at this moment,

leave. Councilman Torres.

Yeah, Camilla and your family, Tom and I got to be very close friends. Even after the election, we got to be pretty close, and he came over and visited me quite a while, and we had some good discussions about everything. I learned to love the guy, and I just, we shared our faith together. He's a brother in the Lord, and we had a good time together, him and I. I want you to know that, and I'm going to miss him dearly, and I just can't express how hard it's going to be on you without your hubby, and he will be missed tremendously. And I just, whatever I can do, as an individual or as a city council, if we can help you in any way, please don't hesitate to ask, but we're here for you.

God bless you.

Thank you, Councilman Torres. Any other comments from Council? Councilman Hogan?

I miss him dearly, and anything I can do for you guys, okay? I know what he meant to this community. And, Sophia,

Duke misses you.

You got to come by sometime and see him. So, thank you.

He loved it. Thank you.

Thank you for coming down this evening to recognize him with and share him with us.

Thank you. I'll walk around. Okay.

You guys want to stay or go?

Go, friend. Okay. Run.

Anytime you get the chance to get out of the city council.

I'll see you guys next month. There is something that I was working through, yet it's just a commission. I could go for it, but it was working, but it was working, and I know it's so much. It may be

a five-minute break for Councilman Hogan here, so we'll

move.

Moving on, we'll move on to the public hearing for revenue sources. These are the following rules of order. A public hearing is intended to be a one-way communication providing citizens the opportunity to provide testimony on a public hearing topic for the city council to use for their decision-making process. Please frame your testimony in the form of a statement, fact, or opinion, not in the form

of a question.

You will have three minutes to make a statement. The city clerk will announce that time is up and that the time to finish your thoughts in a sentence or two or most. I need to step back for a minute. I need to announce the time, which was 620, which is when we opened the public hearing for revenue sources, giving the opportunity for citizens to comment. Staff, would you like to read the agenda bill? Venice Mortar for revenue.

The public hearing revenue sources, agenda bill 26113. It's a presentation for our revenue sources. Would you like me to begin the presentation?

Thank you. You bet. That'd be great. I've

shared my screen so you can see the PowerPoint presentation. This is a city of boarding 2027 revenue sources. The types of revenue that the city of boarding has are taxes. We have excise tax, sales tax, and property taxes. It's the majority of the funding for our general fund. Licenses and permits for business permits, franchise fees, intergovernmental revenues for grants, state assistance, criminal justice, special programs, grants. School resource, officer funding from the local school district, and liquor profits. We have charges for goods and services, including court costs, building plan review, inspection fees, engineering, plan review fees, utility fees, and cemetery fees. We have fines and forfeits for convictions of crime, civil penalties, traffic infractions, DUI penalties, utility, late fees, shutoff fees, and NSF check fees. We have other miscellaneous revenue, including investment interest, rentals and leases, donations, and special event fees. Our excise tax rates remain in effect once they're adopted. The city receives the following excise taxes. So we receive V&O utility tax at 6% of gross revenues for electricity, natural gas, cable, and telephone. We also receive local gambling taxes, 10% of the net receipts for nonprofits and 4% of gross receipts for for-profit organizations. We receive local real estate excise tax, which is a 0.5% on home sales within our locality. And then we recently added leasehold excise tax, which is a 4% tax on government properties that are leased to non-government agencies. The excise utility taxes for natural gas, cable, electricity, and telecommunications is shown here in a graph of how the taxes that we've received from 2018 to 2027.

I'm sorry.

In 2026, our levy amount was $1.4 million. So we're requesting that times 1%, which would be $1.49 million. That would include any new construction. The information would be sent to us in October, so this is just an estimated calculation. We also can request up to $2.10 per household. The city's total assessed value. That would be if the library and the fire district are able to claim their full share. In 2026, the city's assessed valuation was $1.48 billion, which is divided by 1,000 and multiplied by 160%. This means that our upper limit or the other limit for property tax valuation for 2027 would be $2.3 million. We, of course, would take the lesser amount, which is $1.49 million. The total revenue is limited to 1%, so when the rate goes down, the house values increase more than 1% of the home values decrease, the rate per 1,000 would go up. So if you looked at our property taxes here, you can see in the blue is the amount of revenue, and in the orange line shows the actual dollar per 1,000. And in 2017, we were at 1.61 per 1,000. As of 2026, we were down to $1 per 1,000. Property tax example, this is just another way of looking at our property taxes and how they're split out. This is pulled from an actual home within the city limits on the assessor's website. So 2% of the $8.14 per $1,000, which was levied in 2026, goes to transit. 12.3% goes to the city. Less than half a percent goes to conservation futures. 8.7% goes to the county. 1.1% goes to the flood district. 17.2% goes to fire.

And that is it.

Thank you, Director Mortar. Is there anyone in the audience who would wish to comment at this time in the public hearing? Seeing none, do we have anyone online, Madam Clerk?

No. Okay, thank you.

I'd like to close the public hearing at 6.35 and open it to questions or comments from Council. Council Member Torres.

Yeah.

What the fines and penalties, how do they come about? In the water revenue?

Fines and penalties are related to late payment or shutoffs for the water service.

Okay.

And that works for the rest of the other? Fines and penalties work for the water resource recovery revenue also?

Yes.

If they, there's, typically there's fees associated if they are paying their bill late.

Okay. All right. Thank you. Mm-hmm.

Thank you, Pastor Chris.

Deputy Mayor Sproth.

Can you go back to the types of revenue slide real quick?

Sure. I

think, I think for our audience, I'd like to, in there under fines and forfeitures, we have traffic infractions.

That's, um,

that's like the school zone, right?

They're included, yes.

They're included.

Now, I think a lot of folks in reporting believe that those funds just get dumped into the general fund. Um, can you clarify where those funds actually go?

The, the school zone infraction funds are being separated as of 2027. So, we, we only have two months of that we actually collected funds.

Um,

so 2027, we, we are going to separate them into their own fund. They are restricted for public safety purposes and for administration of the program. Um, they are not allowed to be used for general financing of operations for the city. Um, there is, uh, a revised code of Washington that tells us what we're allowed to use those funds for.

Right.

So, I just wanted the, the, our constituents to understand that. I, I think some people have a feeling that those funds are, you know, we put those up just to grab money so that we could boost our, uh, general fund. But those are strictly regulated and there's certain ways that those funds can be. So, I just want to declare that, uh, thank you very much.

You're welcome.

And good presentation.

Thank you.

Thank you, Deputy Mayor Strauss. Any other questions or comments from Council?

Council Member Tracy? I'm good. Okay, Council Member Williams. Okay, hearing none.

We'll move on to the next item of business, our consent agenda. Are there any items on the consent agenda that you'd wish to have pulled, uh, as a standalone item for this evening?

Okay. Hearing none.

We'll move on with the consent agenda.

As prepared.

Claims voucher list dated October 14th.

Excuse me, Clay.

Mayor, I am sorry to interrupt, but I, I just wanted the, you to know, I'm looking at the participant list online. I don't think Council Member Williams is still attending. I don't know if he got disconnected or what happened, but, uh, as of right now, he's, he's not in this meeting. There, it does appear that there's still a quorum, so Council can still proceed.

Thank you, Attorney Lloyd. Uh, so noted clerk, maybe document that. So, we will move on now, forward with the consent agenda. Claims voucher list, uh, dated October 14th,

2026.

Council on the amount of $601,311.42, which includes voucher number 59192 through 59245. An electronic fund transfers in the amount of $0 for a grand total of $601,311.42. Payroll voucher, payroll electronic deposit transmissions in the amount of $294,377.85 for the period covering September 16th through 31st. Meeting minutes, Council meeting September 30th, 2026, and updated Council meeting June 10th, 2026. I'll entertain a motion.

As prepared.

Make a motion to approve the consent agenda as prepared.

Second.

Motion made by Deputy Mayor Sproul, seconded by Council Member Therese. All those in favor?

Aye. Aye. I so moved.

Okay, moving on to the next item of business this evening. AB 26109, Skated Selemetry Master Plan and Design. It's been presented and talked about in Committee of Whole and also in the study session numerous times. Are there any comments or questions that the Council wishes to have at this time? Or I should say questions of the engineer before we move forward? Deputy Mayor Sproul?

Yeah, I

think my question really – let me get there. I have a question for actually our city attorney in regards to this.

The

motion here, is that a valid motion that's written on the agenda bill and also the agenda? And my concern that I want to point out is it doesn't say who we're giving the approval for, and it does not say who the money is going to. And I really have some strong concerns about just willy-nilly just giving money, not knowing where it's going.

So, yeah,

that's a valid concern. All you would need to do to clarify that intent, Deputy Mayor, is to amend the motion to say to approve the Skated Selemetry Master Plan and Design, Scope of Work and Budget, as prepared in Agenda Bill 26-109. Then you're specifically referencing the attachment to the agenda bill. And so that – then your language of the motion would be – would have an anchor to it, if that makes sense.

Oh, and it would not need an amended motion. It would just be – you would create the motion.

There's not an emotion.

So let me make a motion now to approve the mayor to enter into a contract with parametrics for the Skated Selemetry Master Plan and Design, based upon the scope of work outlined below, an amount not to exceed $292,730.00.

Two.

Motion made by Deputy Mayor Sproul, seconded by Council Member Hogan. I'll open it for comments. Any other comments, Deputy Mayor Sproul? Comments, Council Member Hogan?

Well,

I think we've gone over pretty well. I'm hoping this – this helps solve some issues that we've had for a long time.

So – Appreciate it.

Any other, Council Member, comments?

City Attorney has his hand raised.

City Attorney Lloyd?

This question is simply for the Deputy Mayor to clarify that his motion is referencing the scope of work and budget. And you said outline below – I believe you meant outline below in Agenda Bill 26-109. It's simply to have the minutes accurately reflect your intent, sir.

That was my intent, yes.

Thank you.

Thank you, Attorney Lloyd. Hearing no other comments from Council, any comments or questions from the audience? Seeing none, all those in favor?

Aye. Aye. All those opposed?

Motion passes.

Moving on.

We'll be moving to Executive Session for two items to be discussed.

Two items, Your Honor.

Your Honor.

Sorry, a little bit of habit there.

Mayor,

there are two items to discuss for potential litigation to discuss legal risk with Council.

Thank you. Thank you.

So we will go into Executive Session for 15 minutes?

15, yeah.

15? Okay.

And return at 7 o'clock? And there will be motions to follow, if I'm not mistaken?

Uh, there will be discussion to follow, whether there are motions, I, that's, that's up to y'all.

Okay. All right. Thank you. Okay.

So we'll enter into Executive Session, 7-5, 6-45, return at 7 p.m.

Danielle, are you creating a breakout room?

Okay.

I, well, I think we have to wait two minutes before we call back, come back to session, and then, um,

okay, there's Debbie Mayor, and then, uh, then I'll advise what we can do from there. But I. Mayor, I have 7 o'clock.

Council is back in session at 7 p.m. Moving on, I have an agenda bill 26-105, Pierce County Radio Fees and Use Agreement. Police Chief Devin Grabelik,

Attorney Lloyd.

Simply to streamline matters, I know Chief Grabelik has presented on this issue a number of times in the past. Councils can certainly probe Chief Grabelik with any questions. But in terms of the proposed action to be taken, Council can move to authorize payment of the invoices. It can also just take no action. In which case, if no motion is made, then Council simply moves on.

Thank you. Okay, I will look for a motion.

You made Chief walk up here. I'm going to ask him a question.

Okay.

Are you still standing solid where you've stated before, Chief?

I am. Thank you. Okay. Thanks, Chief. Thank you, Chief.

Any other questions, Chief, before we move on to a motion? Do I hear a motion? With no motion?

Okay. Thank you, Chief. Motion dies.

Okay, I will entertain another motion for adjournment.

So moved.

Motion made to adjourn by Customer Hogan.

Second.

Second by Deputy Mayor Sproul.

All those in favor? Aye. Motion passes. Thank you.

Have a great evening, everyone.

Thanks, Dan. Good night, everyone.